Wednesday, October 04, 2006

Winds of change

Today was Karnataka bundh…but I went to work and found quite a few people at work especially the unmarried gals many of them living in PG digs. Over the past two weeks I have met and befriended most of the girls working here. It doesn’t take long for girls to become friends, though I see the opposite in guys. They tend to make a couple of friends within their team or have friends outside the office. Whenever we are, we girls immediately form a group; it is the most natural thing that happens. Soon your problems become theirs and vice versa and we sort of know what is happening in each others life. A married gal would greet another in the morning with a question about her day after she went home, unsolved tiffs with hubby or inlaws or other irritants that would be general knowledge among the gals.

In my last company I was witness to a spate of weddings of my gal colleagues. Most of them marrying with stars in the eyes and then the troubling lightening crash to absolute boredom or irritation with married life within weeks!!! The married gals of course, chuckled with an "I told you so" kind of look.

Today I see a subtle but definite change in the attitude of girls. After living under oppressive and restrictive middle class parents, then tasting freedom and financial independence at PG digs and employment, they are not willing to get back to that kind of lifestyle via marriage. As I write this post four marriages are in the divorce court from my last company and an equal number in this office too. In all these cases, the girls just could not take the pressure of job and housework and realized that they had a choice not to live like this. They had done their best, but when you have lived in a PG/home where food was served on time and all you had to do was make sure you got up in time and reached office in time, they kind of wonder why they have to give up such a lifestyle. The US work culture, lets face it is not conducive to an Indian kind of marriage where the woman does most of the work. And this realization is dawning on girls nowadays. Today gals are taking a good hard look at marriages and what is in it for them. The fact is all of them know what’s in it for them…housework and the onus of looking after another human being. Besides nosey interfering in laws and relations. This is the cold analysis of a marriage from a working gals viewpoint.

The married girls on the other hand, swear that their daughters will not be brought up to believe that marriage is the ultimate goal in a girl’s life. And this generation of girls will soon be upon us and they sure will be very different from this present generation.

Like most oppressed people, the womenfolk of India, at least the younger lot too is beginning to raise their voices and rebel. The world of the Indian gal is in a churn and I for one wonder what this churn will throw up. Will it be embittered feminists or die hard single career girls? No one knows, but the change is underway and what direction it will take depends a lot on the Indian guys.

Will the Indian man rise to the occasion or through his refusal to change make extremists of these girls? The juggernaut of change cannot be stopped but I hope it goes in the right direction.

The ball is in your court dear Indian gentlemen!

52 comments:

Thanu said...

There are lots of guys I know who helps their wives with chores starting with my dad. His idea of surpising my mom one day was cleaning the whole kitchen (scrubbed floors, dishes, cleaned shelves - the whole nin yards) when she had to work a weekend.

There are lot of guys vice versa too who expect their wives to do all chores around the house.

I think girls should voice their concerns to their husband, ask them to come help them. Let the guys know that we girls get tired too after a days work. If the guy loves his wife and wants her to me happy he will definitly help her, atleast little as chopping vegetable, doing dishes.

silverine said...

thanu: I am afraid you are not in touch with the ground realities here. Girls have no voices, period.

"If the guy loves his wife and wants her to me happy he will definitly help her, atleast little as chopping vegetable, doing dishes."

I am afraid the working Indian gal wants more than a little help, she wants 50% of sharing of chores.

Thanu said...

If anyone is in a relationship where his/her voice is not heard, that relationship is not worth being in.

Anonymous said...

I agree that freedom and financial independence can bring a change in most people's attitude. But, thats no excuse to run away from the commitment and sacrifice that a marriage calls for. Sharing of 50% of chores eventhough ideal, is impossible to achieve. A guy/girl should know about this even b4 entering into a committed relationship/marriage. Just like you dont have 2 managers who share the "same" kind and amount of responsibilities/duties, you cant have husband and wife sharing equal amount of responsibilities. There is only 1 pant per couple and only 1 of them(husband or wife) can wear it. Both of them trying to wear it will result in broken marriages or divorces. According to me marriage is a combination of love, sacrifice and commitment. If ppl are not ready for it then, it's (or is it "its", silverine???) better stay away from it rather than ruining their life.

G

Jiby said...

thanu was talking about how a huge majority of indian men change when they reach the US...they suddenly know how to be the ideal foil to the wife, in all her chores at home...its really a miracle... almost 90% of the indian men in the US are like that.

silverine, like you said, men in india have miles to travel, they carry a lot of conceptions about how the ideal wife should be, yet they dont give a thought to modern realities and how much they need to contribute at home to make things work.

it also has to do with laziness...from childhood our boys come home, they dont do any of the work at home, they are just expected to eat, drink, sleep while the mother works and the maidservant helps her and the sister too pitches in. a guy like me will harbour all the right progressive attitudes but he wouldnt notice the dirt on the carpet or the dishes left in the sink.

its the best thing that can happen in india...the way women have come out of their homes. if the gals dont go back to a sati manobhaavam after marriage they sure can change the guys, otherwise they can suffer, or there is the path to divorce which i think is okay rather than living every day feeling like a slave.

Jiby said...

i wouldnt know, but maybe you would being a woman, i get this feeling, seeing on orkut and other discussion forums, that
more than extremism or feminism, the new indian woman is getting more attracted to lesbianism, maybe more as a lifestyle statement rather than a sexual orientation, coz of dissatisfaction with men, marriages and the traditional indian way of life.

its just a thought that crossed my mind as i read ur post...

Fleiger said...

Excellent post once again. Guess you have some time on your hands now ;)

The world of the Indian gal is in a churn and I for one wonder what this churn will throw up. Will it be embittered feminists or die hard single career girls?
Personally, I am afraid of the pendulum swinging the entire way on the opposite end... A generations of hardcore feminists, who don't believe that the Indian man is also changing with his exposure to the world. Tell me, would you be inclined to have same expectations from your daughter-in-law as your mother-in-law would have from you now?
I don't mind girls who say marriage is not their ultimate goal. But at the same time, we must take into account that family is one of the cornerstones of Indian society.

silverine said...

thanu: This post has nothing to do with relationships. Marrriage is rapidly becoming a choice like having a tatoo or perming your hair. You live in a society where women have evolved, while here in India the evolution is taking off now, what my concern is the direction it will take.

G:Marriage is not the be all and end all for the Indian gal anymore. Increasing divorces are a pointer to this. It is not the lack of commitment, but the choice of saying 'no' to marriage. And as Jiby pointed out, our men can do 50% or more when in the US, then why not here? I guess they will change eventually, but the girls are changing faster, that's my point.

Jiby: That was a balanced take on the issue. What srikes me is the non chalance that I see, if marraige is a strain on your time and career then get out of it, is the mentality. Girls who divorce are no longer willing to remarry too. Even the lower class women are evolving rapidly. My maid kicked out, as she was unwilling to keep him if he was not a contributor to the marriage and household. The militancy is disturbing and I hope the Indian man will change soon for his own sake. I frankly have never come accros cases of lesbianism or talks of it till now.


Fleiger: Absolutely dead on...
"Personally, I am afraid of the pendulum swinging the entire way on the opposite end... A generations of hardcore feminists, who don't believe that the Indian man is also changing with his exposure to the world."

That is exactly my point with this post!!!! And if the Indian man doesn't keep stride with the change then the Indian family will be the sufferer. You really have got the point fleiger, hats off!!

alex said...

"The married girls on the other hand, swear that their daughters will not be brought up to believe that marriage is the ultimate goal in a girl’s life."

this where the decay starts. once the parents start forcing thier ideas and ideals on their children, it becomes difficult for them to grow as free people. they will always be restricted by the wants and wishes of their parents.

No one can truly tell what is the best choice for another. Suggesting alternatives is fine. After a certain age, the choice should be left to the individual concerned.

Jagan said...

my comment is for this particular line (and not on the post ) - "Soon your problems become theirs and vice versa" ...arent girls full of problems ??always ?? semma torture machi .. ;-)

Anonymous said...

I agree with u Silver , 100%. Am workin in the IT industry and I do have my goals and aspirations. To realize them I have to spend more than the normal working hrs in office... Have a lot of frens who were at the same level as I was but then , they let go of all their dreams after marriage...Yeah , now they are at the early stages of a blissful romantic married life...but they do feel left out and frustrated when it comes to their career.. I do think that this frustration is gonna affect their relationships in the long run. When they leave at 6 coz they need to... the men can stay as long as they want coz their career is important. This is especially the case of couples who live in the IT cities far from their parents. Well...not a big issue for those ,whose parents do the baby sitting and the household work.

But the fact that I cant understand (in most of the cases) is that , it is the lady who chooses to let go of her dreams. She believes its her duty ... thats frustrating. The girls should change ... They should.

This is a situation I ve come across tonnes of times. A group of my unmarried frens discussing about this and that. And whats the conclusion.. Yeah all of em talk about how we need our career and blah blah. But then the topic shifts to some gal or guy at office.

And yes their conclusion : Mr. X is such a lucky guy...his wife is cho chweeet... she slogs day and night for him...she loves him so much...
Or Ms. Y is a perfect lady...She leaves office daily at 6 so that she can make good yummy dishes for her hubby..

No we dont need to get into the good books of the people around...But this attitude should change... I hope it does..
- Vaishnavi

Abhishek said...

Shudder:::Shudder::::Shudder

Maybe, my dear A., even Guys today, prefer not tying the knot (noose).
No one likes to have a financially taxing, life long bond, signed just for the heck of it...
But again, these are just my views.

b v n said...

Well,the ball is in nobodys court :) marriage as an institutionalised form of the 'other vice' is a big farce. In the west,especially in western europe the trend is towards single working mothers - the guys are happy too. Nobody asks these girls or guys to get married *by force* - they want the security of a marital arrangement and the support plus recognition of the conservative society and caste-religion nexus.yes they want it.

and this so called 'freedom' that they hang around their hippocratic necks and talk about to others looses much of its meaning in front of the age-old-time-tested juggernaut called nuptial. they want cocaine badly and they talk about freedom from addiction. Will sharing of 50% household chores set the republic straight - oh i'm game :)

on the practical side what girls in india can do is - get a job,be financially independent - all other things will come in place - you dont need a revolution for that and dont need to kill all men.

marriage is a big joke and needs to be done away with :)
but i cant imagine what childhood we would have had if our parents werent married or it was a single mother or dad or something like that. i've never known how they divided the work , but i had a happy time at home :))

alex said...

@BVN
"marriage is a big joke and needs to be done away with :)"

Sure dude! :)

ToOothlEss WOndeR! said...

i beg to disagree there.
i've seen quite a few families falling apart. and i've listened to the versions of either side.
agreed, men expect the wives to do the laundry, men expect the wives to organize the place. but i'm sure it's something that all of us have grown up believing.
i would cook for my wife, but that would be my idea of giving her a surprise.
i'd be ready to do my bit to keep her hapopy.
if that would mean doing the dishes and dusting the windows, so be it - but i'd do it for love. not for equality.
i'd love her, and i'd be her man.
marriages dont fall apart because of a husband refusing to do the dishes, or a wife insisting that she be let to drive - they fail when the wife stops accepting the husband as her man, and the husband takes the wife for a maid and a sex machine.

they fail when it all becomes a blame game.
and i'm so concerned - for myself, for the people i love.
i'm so freakin worried about all this shit happening!

ToOothlEss WOndeR! said...

i'm sorry about the long comment.
what i meant was this - the key to a successful marriage - atleast to me - is the understanding that you're going to be in it for life.
So talk , smile, n have a nice time for Goodness' sake!

And thanks for the post. i never knew i felt so strongly about this until i started to write that last comment.

Crap! i thought i wanted to apologize for the long comment!

LI said...

Hi Silverine , This is about your previous post . If you are getting 10K hits in poomanam , then you should start using google analytics. I'm not sure whether you are using it . But still thought may be useful :) . Ciao

LI said...

Oopz , I never clicked on the other blog that was in your profile . Anyway It's interesting .
Beg to differ with you in this post . All of us are post liberalisation children and has seen most of these changes that you have written happening in front of our eyes . Marriages fall part when the gals role is limited to "housework and the onus of looking after another human being. " but lot of guys have also changed their views and personally i know a lot of them who do baby sitting and cooking . When it shifts to "us" from "you and me" most marriages are a success and "you and me" relationships whihc existed earlier and about which you have written are bound to fail when the guy looks at his partner as someone who does housework and the does the onus of looking after another human being.

Kusum Rohra said...

Jesus christ!! We are alter egos or what!

I have travelled in mumbai locals at peak hours for 3 long years. The crowd was maddening. There would never be space to breath without smelling the next person's hair. Even in first class.

There few women would be chilled out about the horrible travelling conditions, we would joke about it, take a look at it lightly, where as some women would even at the slightest movement start a full fledged fight.

I then made mental notes, most of the women who fought and were more irritable were middle aged, married, and had in laws. Then I spoke to many of them,turned out that lots of them at either no or minimal support from their spouse and in-laws.

The ones who were chilled out like me were in early to late 20s single and were either with parents or Living as PGs or in hostels.

I felt so sorry for those women who had to wake up at 5 in the morning, pack dabbas, send kids to school, then run to catch the 8.30 local train. Spend longish hours at office and return to cook dinner, help kids with homework and then make arrangements for the next day marathon!! No wonder they were more irritable!

I come from a family/community which is highly conservative/orthodox/narrow minded, so everytime I meet the so called prospective grooms the first condition they name is me quitting my career. I of course gracefully show them the way to the latest park where I advise them to sit and think about life in general :D

I remember writing about this, about how the Indian man should step up with the changing face of things with more women opting to work but I never finished that post maybe I should finish it now.

Er, sorry for the longish comment, I blah blah a lot !!

mathew said...

I could empathise with many thoughts mentioned by toothless wonder..


It just doesnt make sense when everything is zeroed down to percentages..50% of dishes..50% of laundry..50% of baby sitting..Rather it should be one wanting to do more for the other..


Agreed that woman folks have had to bear the brunt for long confined to kitchens and daily chores..Agreed that men should play a bigger role in housekeeping..But ultimately if the husband and wife are made for each other then everything falls in place...i guess so..

Talking of lifestyle's abroad..Men and woman share work at home..They take care of kids together..Here "Wife" is not a commodity invented to cater the husband's fancies..But then here I see more extra-marital relations...more divorces(not for genuine reasons)..more live-in relations rather than good old marriages..Hey folks here are too advanced to commit anything!!!

Years down the lane ..am sure things will turn out like this back home as well!!

My Dad helps Mom in Kitchen and this forced me somehow to venture into kitchen as well although not voluntarily..I thought it was very "unmanly"..But then now I realise that it wasnt bcoz my Mom insisted on those high end sophisticated multi-tasking and work sharing theories..It just should happen!!

der Bergwind said...

we (i like the security of the collective:)) started @ 5 in the morning in sum loaned buses as the company din wann any scratches on its pristine blue n white vehicles; transported to hosur, tvs motors.. the landmark into tamil nadu where we worked from 6 to 6:30!! regular being 8:15 to 5:30!! hapless folkz:(

does frndship have the gender tag? have wondered why the crushes n crashes, the luuve n hate- the flashes n tears swell out of relationshipz??
with the financial n educational empowerment women are on a no compromise spree- VOICES MUST BE HEARD!
enigma sang- SILENCE MUST BE HEARD n i guess in these understandingz, compromises n sacrifices lie the secret of togetherness, per se marriage! ya, just not for the female populace-BOTH
trust n faith don go well with generationZ! things are not taken on face value.. lifez a mumbo jumbo- analysis n sysnthesis!
walk the roads together n stop stop going bac into MCP, egotist n all those brickbats v/s eternally oppressed lady :)
two to tango in life man... both shud share that space- n then it really all startz with a frndship.. the base i wud say.
strings rupture, divorces are cast
affairs, break ups like rush hour traffic n crash boom bang :)!!
we need to stand n stare, the baser elements of life- over a cuppa coffee, wud be great naa??

silverine said...

bvn, Lijo and toothless wonder: I can only report what I am seeing. The educated willing helper of a guy is a minority or is among the few who think they will help out when they marry. But clearly from personal observation it isn't so. I myself have seen so called modern guys change after marriage. There are guys who are different but the vast majority still think that women are maids. I am merely reporting facts as they unfold in front of me.

Alex: Women are blamed when they bitch about other women or promote the sati savitri mentality among their daughters, so I welcome this change in stance by moms to bring up their daughetrs with a lot more self respect and self worth than gals of the past generation.

Kusum: Exactly!!! I have seen this too...in fact my married gal colleagues prefer to come to work when they are sick as at home they will get no rest. They are cranky because they have got up early and cooked while the hubby sat and drank tea and read the neswpaper and then they put in 9 hours of work in the office and go back to the same routine. These gals work like construction laborers and then work again in the office to go back and work again. There is no end to the physical work they are supposed to put in!!! Thanks for the long comment :)

mathew: Like I told the rest of the guys, something is snapping within gals today, if things were hunky dory then we wouldn't have this problem would we?

der bergwind: "women are on a no compromise spree- VOICES MUST BE HEARD!" Exactly, that is the movement I see today!!! Howmuch ever a guy helps, ultimately most of the physical housework is done by the gals. So why should she willingly take more work on her head. That seems to be the general view which is making many gals shun marriage too. The number of single gals in the metros is on the rise.

alex said...

Silverine,
Teaching them values is essential. But how will the present mothers know what is the right path for their children? How can anyone dictate the path of another?

G said...

Gentlemen,

It's time you woke up and smelt the closet.

No matter how many of you help around the house and how many have daddys, uncles, brothers and cousins that help around the house, the fact that most women get a raw deal (home/kids/office/etc) is something you all know is true, no matter how hard you try and hide it.

I am a man. Guilty as charged. I might help around the house, 3 days this week. You know, back breaking stuff like picking up my clothes, putting the newspaper away, washing dishes in case the maid hasn't come, heck, washing clothes and hanging them out to dry too - Point is, I act like I have done enough work to last the next 3 months of NOT having to listen to my 'not helping' around the house. And so do all of you heh heh, go on, admit it.

It is a change to hear that more and more women are either making sure they go back to being single or making sure they remain like that in order to get on with their lives - I am glad, more single women out there make it rather interesting for a single man like me. That is to say, till I find someone who claims I do not help around the house.

Silv, excellent post. Kudos.

Fleiger said...

You really have got the point fleiger, hats off!!
Great, so now I can gatecrash any feminist party and be praised as a guy who is very good at understanding women. Now that's an image...

And now I have lost that chance with thinking out loud about it :(

Jokes apart, from what I observed in my friends and acquint., people are changing, at least in cities. Of course, we still have guys who want "housewife" to take care of their house, and to help their moms, but more and more you see that guys are taking up at least some responsibilities at home. I guess the generation of parents where moms are working currently is one of the factors there too.

silverine said...

Alex: I think your comment is highly insulting to moms and women. So what do you suggest? That moms send their children to some 'value school'? Is that how you were bought up? I am quite happy with the values I was bought up with and I think moms are the best teachers when it comes to 'values'. And today's modern moms are perhaps the best people equipped to handle the changes in environment of their daughters, because they are educated and not burdened with the onus of carying on silly traditions in the name of continuity.

G: That was great! And I don't say this because you agree with me but because smelling the closet as you put it, is a very difficult task to do for the Indian man. Every post I have written here about women is from personal observations and I see difficult times ahead, because majority of our guys come from the small towns where women are still considered as housekeepers. The women on the other hand is rapidly evolving from the traditional mindset and adjusting to the times. For the guys, it won't be that easy to let go of the cushy lifestyle that the traditional role of a woman grants them.

fleiger: What I meant was that it is difficult for men to accept things like what I have written and I have seen the tendency to defend when the subject is about women's plight. Let's face it, it's a men's club all the way here in India.

G said...

heh heh Silv, early riser, eh?

silverine said...

G: Early to bed and early to rise :p

Abhishek: I dont see why a guy should marry a financially taxing bond? It's not you are forced to? Men in India have a choice don't they...at least for now ?

Jagan: Yes, a gal life is beset with problems and it's not funny believe me.

Vaishnavi: Sorry missed you out, thanks for your comment :) From what I see, guys get married because their moms can't slog in the kitchen anymore and they want an able bodied woman to take over from mommy dearest. The men are also not willing to eat Cornflakes because their mom used to make hot dosai for them. Indian cooking is physically taxing and time consuming and unlike the West, our homes are not equipped with gadgets to make life easy. A Western man will be happy with a toast and coffee, but the Indian married man wants his dosai and chutney and his coffee served to him at the table. And you are right, women who slog in the house is considered a 'good wife'. That is such a convenient packaging isn't it? Later as this eats into her career, frustrations and in rising cases divorces become the norm. The productive period in one's career is such a short window that one can only concentrate on career or home. This is the realisation that is creeping in and leading to the change in mind set. So it is no wonder that the new Indian woman wants change or if that is not possible, then avoidance of marriage altogether.

alex said...

Silverine,
I think you have missed my point. I certainly belive in the equality of men and women. And i dislike women being looked down upon.

Especially in Kerala, they are just objects, which is disheartening. Definitely the customs have to be done away with.

My point was that, there might be girls who like to do such work and behave in such a manner. There can also be guys who would like to do more than 50% of the house work. I certainly believe that everything should be shared in a marriage. There should be mutual respect.

Nothing ought to be forced on anyone.

Now what i meant by saying 'can anyone else tell others of their path' was that, be it father or mother or whoever it is, children should be brought up by giving ultimate importance to their interests and not the interests of their parents.

b v n said...

you must be exhausted after replying to all this this :)) see i fully agree with the idea of change that you are suggesting *n do respect your strange sincerity on this issue*
what i dont agree with is those "vast majority ","facts" and percentages out there. neways you've said, the world as you see it unfold...so its a long way to go :)

silverine said...

Alex: All that you say, does it happen? It doesn't. Mutual rspect and parents bringing up their children according to the children's interests is only on paper and discussion boards like this.

bvn: Coming from a family that bought me up to believe that a girl and guy is equal, all this is like a bucket of cold water on my face. I am beginning to see the ridiculous expectations that bind the very spirit of a woman down. Believe me, in my situation things look a lot more clearer than for a person for whom all this is old hat :)

b v n said...

oh forgot to tell you btw...best part of this whole post was...someone's called you 'silver' up there...LOL :))))...hi silver...he he he

silverine said...

bvn:"best part of this whole post was...someone's called you 'silver' up there."

tsk tsk so condescending :p Is that what was best about this whole thing? How MCP'ish!!! LOL

p.s Lots of people call me 'silver';)

Ajith said...

I'm not married, so take my comment could be a bit immature on this..
I've seen it is very tough to have a high-flying career and an excellent family life together.Either from the guy's side or girl's side..The essential part of it is a balance..A balance that you wouldnt compromise much..When I'm married, I certainly dont want either me or my wife returning home regularly after say, 9PM..Both husband and wife have to make compromises...About household chores, I believe its a guys duty to do equal share.. Depending on the individual , man or woman might feel a little bit frustruated when they have to make compromises on their professional front for the sake of family life..But, then its a part and parcel of life. U r not going to be successful in life if you concentrate only on the professional front..That is equally applicable to man and woman.
Sometime back , one girl came and asked to me, what branch I should take in the engineering course..I asked her, what you want to be/what your aim is .. She replied honestly.."I just somehow want a good job..so that, I can get a good and well paid husband" ..I appreciate her honesty, but then, it is this attitude that girls have to throw away.Strive for a career, not a job..At the same time, ensure that you develop maturely enough to realise that life is not only career ( equally applicable to boys too )

Man is incomplete without a woman and vice versa..Ultra high Feminism or male chauvinism is not going to take you to a happy life..
Atleast I believe so.

Fleiger said...

Oh of course, it's locker room enviro in here all the way. Any changes we see are just changing the characteristics of "privilaged" people who can join the club, really.

When it comes to our own marriage/house, many people turn "conservative", I have observed. It's easy to talk about women and their rights in general, but when it comes to your wife, daughter, sister, you always think in a different way. And that's why many men will start arguing with you on this...

der Bergwind said...

@ silverine

staying single :) haha.. we never let the balloons burst naa? never understood why cant we just battle it out free.. shout, cry, laugh, smile abuse but then just know that therez sumthing thatz above all theses exhaust fumes n thatz luve! men, women en mass... sumwhere we are all in the 'i' mode n ya i agree the years of male harakiri has left little to fite for.. but again n again... gottu fite n smell the closets together naa!
to strive, to seek n not to yield:)

ps: hey am new in the blog-o-world, do read the scribblez put up there n lemme know how it is.. posts going with 0 comments hurt man:) just being honest.. so hoping to get sum readership.. had sent u a mail on yahoo, lemme know wat u have2say..

alex said...

Silverine
"All that you say, does it happen?"

If one tried it would.
If everyone questioned them, it would just remain as questions.

silverine said...

Ajith and Alex:I think your intentions and take on this is honorable. But this post is not about women and men. It is about a class of people in society who like the naxals and maoists, ( not very good examples)have decided to take extreme measures because nothing else is working for them. Women are hardening and I am alarmed at the cynicism towards marriage that is speading like an epidemic among Indian women.

Fleiger: Yes, I can see that guys still don't get it. Which is very sad indeed. I can now see what the women in India are up against.

der bergwind: I will reply to your mail, apologies I was busy. My first post had only one comment. I never wrote for comments, in fact you cannot write for comments, blogs are not about comments.You must write for yourself. Soon someone who empathises with you will leave a comment. Bloggers groups are a community of people who agree on various issues or like a persons outlook or writing style. So keep writing, there will always be someone who will connect to you. I will def check your blog out this weekend :)

alex said...

"It is about a class of people in society who like the naxals and maoists, ( not very good examples)have decided to take extreme measures because nothing else is working for them."

I fully agree to this and it hurts to see it happening. :(

Fleiger said...

I can now see what the women in India are up against.
Hope that wasn't trigerred by my comment...

ToOothlEss WOndeR! said...

on a different note,
why dont we take this protest out on to the streets?

more single women is always a welcome thing.
:))

silverine said...

Alex: Ah, I see you get the point now! :)

Fleiger: No, it was not your comment. Actually I don't blame anyone for not getting it, some things have to hit you in the face to make you notice...and I hope that happens instead of it creeping up on you from the back and surprising you :)

toothless wonder: Yeah, I second that, lets take it to the streets, that's the need of the hour :)

alex said...

:)

Jeseem said...

of course there r guys, who take half the share. Its just that these girls took a wrong choice.

if you are thinking all the guys r going to be frwd minded, then that is not going to happen ( u remind me of how many girls want to sit at home, after marriage, even at this times.) so search.

hmm few suggestions.
1. Experiment b4 u commit. marriage is big step, so be sure to know what u r getting into. A good way is live-in relationship. Yes , it is a bit ahead of indian culture. but the plus points r both the guy and gal, learn how to live together. Also during live-in, parents r not involved, so both get more freedom to adjust.
2. marry late, by which time, u know what u want.
3. know what u want, and find guys who match it. don't jump in just 'cause u like the guy too much. and be sure to say goodbye to guy who doesn't match.

silverine said...

Alex: :) to u too

Jessem. See my last reply to Ajith and Alex. That is what this post is about :)

Ganja Turtle said...

"this at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman"

poonaji said...

indian gentlemen already support indian women in this cause

we are already humanists, if not feminists!

the in-laws on both sides are causing troubles.. let us destroy them!

der Bergwind said...

@ silverine
hmmm, its never for comments- just to know tat people do read.. people stop by :) comments r just like footprints n ya, wen matured, evolved u can know tat u have the silent faces who read n just read... but its just to know sumbody reads.. tatz all wud satisfy a scribbl-er

Mind Curry said...

oops..was travelling all of last week..and hence totally cut off from blogoland..

this post was really great..and i can see how it has made a lot of people think..which is very good.

i personally agree with you 100%..thats whats happening with girls now..and its funny how a lot of men and even parents call these "new gen" girls as arrogant and high-headed - only coz they have a job, have financial independence and have a voice..i think this reaction is more out of desperation of losing control and authority.. and i think this is the best thing to happen to women in india. i just hope every girl is educated, gets a job and will always be in a position where she can decide what she wants..and will not feel "threatened" by the society or the men.

i also specifically liked a particular point you raised in one of the comments..there are a lot of people who support all this independence for women and sharing of chores and all..but in real life how much does it happen? thats the question..

silverine said...

mind curry: You finish your travels while I begin mine :))
"and its funny how a lot of men and even parents call these "new gen" girls as arrogant and high-headed"

Exactly, no one is willing to change, when the slave rebels she is called arrogant and high handed. If these people don't change then marriage as an institution is doomed in India.

"there are a lot of people who support all this independence for women and sharing of chores and all..but in real life how much does it happen? thats the question.. "

I can see this happening everyday...which is why people blindly defending without hard facts just pisses me off!!

Thanks you doc :)

abhishek said...

I'd like to give some personal perspective as I've seen a wide variety of work cultures from the 16 hour workplace in investment banking to the 10-12 hour workplace in private equity. I'd like to say that the flow of people to the latter is vastly overtaking the flow of people to the former. Why?

Quality of life. It's as simple as that. If you work 16 hours a day at some place, that's a choice you've made. But you can't fool yourself into believing that you can pull off a happy married life. Case in point, a recent employee at the 16-hour work culture where I used to work had to quit his job after months of careening in and out of divorce courts. Just being able to manage the nuances of child custody was too much for him and the truth of the pain of breaking up a family hit home pretty soon. He left his job and went to work for a former employee. He's one of the lucky souls, because he had the sense to see sense soon.

I keep in regular contact with investment banking employees and private equity employees and have to say that the latter are vastly happier on average. They have more pursuits in life from their careers and they seem to have a more holistic appreciation for the simpler things in life. They may be slightly less compensated as junior employees on average, but they have more time to spend that money.

50% of the chores, as silverine puts it, is a viable option. Many people discredit it, because it seems like one partner (mostly, the male) puts in more effort on average than the other. But, that's what happens when you are working against an outdated paradigm or the status quo.

When both partners are working, there are times when one may be tied down at work for weeks at a time and return home too exhausted to do chores. I'd say that the only solution to this is constant affirmation that what that person is doing is healthier for the family for the long run and approval across the board on the issue that short terms sacrifices are necessary for the long term. I have seen how many people have conflicts on this topic, particularly as people age, so communication is key.

I think that most people would agree that if only one partner in a marriage is working, it makes little sense for him to share in 50% of the chores of maintaining a home. But, if both are working, then it makes absolute sense for them to share chores equally.

Silverine, thanks for opening this topic. Late as I am to this discussion, what are clearly lacking in the Indian workplace and home is a discussion of female aspirations and perhaps, more importantly, the right approach to a marriage. As more women go to work, the typical model of a housewife doing most of the chores is certainly going to test marriages, if not break up apart families completely. These antiquated model needs to be replaced by a partnership. A partnership not unlike the relationships good employees enjoy in the workplace.

silverine said...

Abhishek: Wow!!! You know I have admired your take on various issues at DOC and your views on this was perhaps the best I have read and not because you agree but because you see the eventuality and accept the change. Thank you so much!!!